MASKED CONTROL
In Control
I have a new man, and he is very traditional. My last boyfriend was not particularly traditional; he was more open-minded and was not a slave to so-called gender roles. While that meant he made me go half on vacations, which I argued against every time, it also meant he did not say ridiculous things like “obey” and “orders” and “submission.” I think he knew that would not go over well with me. This new man is a bit more bold. He uses those words ever so often, and I laugh and say “Was that fun for you? Are you done now? Are you ready for a real conversation between adults?” He claims that his traditional ways are rooted in the Bible, but that’s how people justified slavery, justify homophobia, and it’s how anti-Obama people are trying to “pray” him out of office with Psalm 109:8. So excuse me if I do not obey because he says so. However, I do respect my man very much. I respect his hustle, intelligence, swag, strong family history and values, and most importantly, his opinion. Our strengths and weaknesses compliment each other, and I especially appreciate his viewpoint. I admit that sometimes he shows better judgment than I do. But at the end of the day, I make my own decisions, especially because he is a boyfriend, not a husband, and I have been making my own decisions for many years now.
A few weeks ago, he asked me to not visit a particular city for a party weekend because he was planning on going to the same city and making it a boy’s weekend (he has many of these). I informed him that I was going even though he wanted me to stay home, as I was hanging with my own friends. He became upset, got a lot of air in his chest (probably because his brother was listening), and said “You need to not go. I have a problem with you not respecting my wishes. This may be a deal-breaker. I hope you find a man that tolerates this.” After I got over the threat part of the statement, I said “I respect your opinion, but I disagree with you, and I am going. Disagreement is not disrespect.” After this conversation, I became very concerned. If he thinks I am going to do everything he says, he is going to be very disappointed. Am I crazy? Is disagreement the same as disrespect? Why can I not respectfully disagree with his preference and make my own decision? Sounds to me what he was equating disobedience with disrespect, which seems to be an underhanded control mechanism. Because women know that men want and need to be respected, men are hanging as many things on that hook as possible because they know we do not want to run afoul of respecting them. Is this what traditional men expect? Are they using the word “respect” synonymously with “obey” as a way to control women?
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#1 by Leavetheguy on November 24, 2009 - 8:41 am
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You need to leave this brother girl….simple as that!
This is not traditional he’s trying to be dominant. Do you want to live your life like this……?
I say keep it moving….as Jay-Z said…on to the next one.
#2 by Zarathustra on November 24, 2009 - 9:16 am
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I agree with Leavetheguy. You have got to get out, now. This guy is absolutely ridiculous. You should have zero respect for his opinions. Zero!
#3 by karebear on November 24, 2009 - 11:31 am
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This guy seems unhealthy. Leavetheguy is right, he’s trying to dominate you. You said it yourself, since when is disagreement disrespect? A man that can’t take no for an answer is a danger. Run, don’t walk, away.
#4 by ceciline on November 24, 2009 - 2:09 pm
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agree with all statements, having traditional values is great but his choice of words and overall attitude towards your wishes sound amazingly bold & almost hostile. if your girls trip gets trumped by his frequent boys trip in an entire city, one woud think it will only get more complicated from there…good luck with your new guy, something tells me he may end being a great guy friend that you respect and admire-but not necessarily your husband.
#5 by thelogicalone on November 24, 2009 - 11:37 pm
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What?!?!? this doesn’t even sound like a real situation…if it is I don’t understand the need to ask if you should leave him…that should have been answered when he said his first “obey”…if you are old enough to be looking at potential husband suitors, then please for the life of you RUN!!!!!!! he sounds like he shows signs of an eventual beater…
#6 by Tamika on November 25, 2009 - 10:56 am
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Hey Mama,
I actually don’t think his issue is about respect. It’s more about his insecurities as a man or just plain ignorance. There are a lot of RED flags in your relationship that you should not ignore.
I am a christian woman and I believe in the same scriptures your boy friend does however, he’s applying scripture that should be applied to MARRIAGE and not a dating situation. I’ve always been a believer that if my HUSBAND is doing the things that he should be doing, being submissive/obedient to his wishes will come naturally, but more importantly easily. So if you’re ONLY dating and bumping heads on so many important principles, such as freedom…You should definitely take heed to your personal concerns and issues with this man.
I commend you in standing your ground and if he walks away…I’m sure, no positive. It’s a blessing in disguise.
Good Luck Mama!
#7 by ErinBerin on November 25, 2009 - 2:09 pm
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I agree whole-heartedly with Tamika. That scripture applies to marriage only. If you two are considering that path, then your guy needs to be aware that the Bible also instructs husbands to love their wives. Love does not mean control. Love should, however, induce submission/obedience. And as Tamika said, the act of submission should come naturally and easily, as it does in my marriage. My husband does not tell me what to do; rather, we discuss matters and when he makes a plausible argument to his side (which he usually does), I have no problem making concessions.
Nonetheless, the fact that your guy is still having frequent “boy’s weekends” suggests that he is not ready for marraige anyway. People get married to “settle down”, which means leaving that lifestyle behind. Any good husband not only understands that, but wants it too. Further, it is issue within itself that your guy does not want you in the same city where he is – because it provides indication that he is probably behaving inappropriately and does not want to get caught. That should be a deal-breaker for you.
Many blessings in what you decide to do.
#8 by Zarathustra on November 26, 2009 - 1:17 pm
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“Love should, however, induce submission/obedience.” That just *has* to be wrong. Why would one even use such words when talking about an adult relationship?
The appropriate terms are, perhaps, “conversation,” “sacrifice,” and “commitment.” If the bible teaches otherwise, then so much the worse for Christianity.
#9 by ErinBerin on November 30, 2009 - 1:08 pm
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The BIble specifically uses the word “submit” several times in at least two passages (see below). If you are not a Christian Zarathustra (and I presume you are not), then I would not expect you to understand.
Ephesians 5:21-28:
21) And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22) For wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23) For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. … 24) As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything.
25) For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her…. 28) In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man who loves his wife actually shows love for himself.
Colossians 3:18-19
18) Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting for those who belong to the Lord. 19) Husbands, love your wives and never treat them harshly.
#10 by Zarathustra on November 30, 2009 - 1:55 pm
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Briefly, the issue was not whether the Bible uses the word “submit,” but whether the norms of the Bible should govern adult relationships.
My answer, more so now than before, is “no.” Notice that nothing is mentioned of the husband submitting to the wife. But the larger issue is this: why speak of “submission” at all?
#11 by Jeff on December 7, 2009 - 12:04 pm
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I look at the situation this way… He is simply a man who holds the expectation that he will ultimately get his way in these types of situations…and that belief is rooted in his religious background and upbringing…
Secondly, there’s an old saying that essentially states that when a person shows you who they are believe them/take them at their word. The man isn’t lying to you or anything like that and you should have a clear sense of what his expectations are…
That being said, you need to ask yourself a question. Is this something you can tolerate? He said himself that he wasn’t likely to change, so the ball is essentially in your court. You need to decide is this the type of man that you need to be with and will respect your wishes and feelings. Obviously I don’t know this man and he very well may have a lot of other things going for him, but you need to ask yourself whether or not this kind of thing is a deal breaker.
Finally, I have one question… In today’s society and considering the state of the economy, what is wrong with a “less traditional man” asking you to help with the cost of a vacation or other things.
I have always believed in treating women with the utmost respect and as equals, but there is another side to that idea that many women (not all) don’t seem to understand. Being treated a an equal means that we should share the burden (financially speaking) equally, does it not? I’m not saying that a man shouldn’t treat his lady to dinner, but what’s honestly wrong with going half on a dinner or with a woman treating her man to a meal every now and then? How is that an insult? When it comes to dating and relationships there are always going to be trade-offs.
In a more traditional relationship, a man may be willing to be the bread-winner in some cases, pay the bills and prefer that his wife be at home or something to that effect, but when that happens and he is the one earning the money, he’s going to have ALOT more say in how it is spent, not to mention likely have certain expectations when he gets home as well.
Make no mistake, I am not being hypocritical in this situation because if a woman were the primary bread-winner, then I would expect her to have more say with regards to financial matters as well, but you are going to ultimately have to decide what is more important to you…